HHRG-117-IG05-Transcript-20220517.pdf

  
  
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UNIDENTIFIED AERIAL PHENOMENA 
Tuesday, May 17, 2022 
U.S. House of Representatives, 
Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, 
Subcommittee on Counterterrorism, Counterintelligence,  
and Counterproliferation,  
Washington, D.C. 
 
 
 
The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 9:00 a.m., in Room HVC-210, Capitol 
Visitor Center, the Hon. Andre Carson [chairman of the subcommittee] presiding. 
Present:  Representatives Carson, Schiff, Welch, Himes, Krishnamoorthi, 
Wenstrup, Crawford, Gallagher, Mullin, and LaHood.   
 

  
  
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Chairman Carson.  The subcommittee will come to order.   
Without objection, the chair may declare a recess at any time.   
Before we get started, I want to recognize a moment of silence for the victims of 
the White supremacist hate crime in Buffalo, New York.  The subcommittee has focused 
intently on that threat in both open and closed hearings.  It is utterly devastating to see 
more victims of this violence.   
Buffalo, our heart breaks for you.   
[Moment of silence.]  
Chairman Carson.  With that, I ask my colleagues to join -- pardon me.  We will 
now turn to the business of th…

  
  
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Today we know better.  UAPs are unexplained, it is true, but they are real.  
They need to be investigated, and any threats they pose need to be mitigated.  
Under Secretary Moultrie, Mr. Bray, thank you for coming today.  First, we need 
you to update us on the status of AOIMSG.  The legislation creating it was passed in 
December.  The deadline for implementation is fast approaching, but the group does 
not even have a named director.  We need to know, sirs, the status of the organization 
and the obstacle to getting it up and running.  
Secondly, you have to convince the audience to…

  
  
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Mr. Crawford.  Thank you, Mr. Chairman.  
Honorable Moultrie and Mr. Bray, thank you for coming here today -- we 
appreciate it -- to begin the open dialogue between Congress and the executive branch 
on this important topic.  
While this topic evokes the creative imaginations of many, aside from all the hype 
and speculation, there are important underlying issues posed by UAPs.  Despite the 
serious nature of this topic, I have to say I am more interested in our understanding of 
Chinese and Russian hypersonic weapon development or understanding why this 
administration was so slow to…

  
  
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that seem to perform in ways that could pose a threat to safe flight operations or that 
could be signs of a foreign adversary's attempt to develop a strategic technological 
surprise against the United States.  
It is also essential that our pilots and others feel they can report UAPs they 
observe without any stigma for doing so.  This is the open, unclassified portion of our 
hearing.  We will have a closed, classified part later.  It is important for the public to 
know that the classification of information exists to protect national security, not to try to 
hide the truth.   
Whe…

  
  
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Chairman Carson.  The gentleman yields back.   
Now I will turn to our distinguished chairman, Adam Schiff, for any commence he 
wishes to make.  
Mr. Schiff.  Thank you, Chairman Carson, for holding this open hearing on 
unidentified aerial phenomena and for your leadership on this issue.   
Holding a portion of our discussion today in open session is critical to the cause of 
transparency and openness which was Congress' intent in authorizing and funding this 
new task force.   
The larger effort that is being undertaken to study and characterize UAP reports is 
an important step tow…

  
  
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challenges they still face, and how this committee can make sure the task force is able to 
shed light on one of the world's most enduring mysteries.  
I thank you, gentlemen, for your work and will be very interested to hear what you 
have to say.  To me, among the most fascinating questions:  Are these phenomena that 
we can measure?  That is, instruments report there is something there.  It is not the 
human eye confusing objects in the sky.  There is something there, measurable by 
multiple instrument.  And yet it seems to move in directions that are inconsistent with 
what we know…